7 replies to this topic

[Don Fraser]

I have been searching for a B744 flight plan EGKK-KJFK via the LAMbourne SID to join a northern track.
I have looked in edi-gla.co.uk but they are all SAM departures.

Thanks

Don

[Phillip Speer]

Hi Don,

Your best bet is to use SimSRD or the Standard Route Document to join EGKK to the current NAT tracks you want. It's difficult to give an ad hoc route as depends on the tracks in use. SimSRD has most/all the oceanic entry points.

Phillip

[Jack Shaw]

No real world routing from LGW-JFK, so ive made one for you, using the most northerly NAT Track today;

Route - LAM L10 BPK UN601 LESTA UP6 RODOL UL28 PENIL UL70 BAGSO DCT RESNO NATA VALIE N242B TAFFY J564 PQI J55 ENE
NATA Routing - RESNO 56/20 56/30 56/40 56/50 SCROD VALIE
Flight Levels Available - FL310-FL390

Hope this helps!

Edited by Jack Shaw, 30 January 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Dave James]

Don,

If you were to do this run today, you can also put TMI029 in your remarks section (Track Message Identifier), and/or state this when requesting NATA on clearance delivery, it tells the controller that you have the current NAT Track Alpha coordinates.

[Don Fraser]

Sorry for the late reply.

Thanks for you inputs Phillip, Jack and Dave.

I should have given you the background to my request.

We were controlling the other night when a pilot filed a flight plan from EGKK to KJFK with a KENET SID. As we all know the KENET is for UK and EIRE only. We tried giving a SAM departure but he said that was too far south? So, that was when we started looking for a flight plan going north via LAMbourne. All that could be found were ones with a SAM departure and that was why I wondered if anyone had a flight plan on a northerly departure. I understand the NATS tracks change everyday so a flight plan cannot be set in concrete. I did think about giving him an exit point using SIMsrd but in the end the pilot finally accepted a SAM departure.

There is a note against using 'BPK UN601 LESTA' See RAD EG2289, EG2292, EG2293, EG2225 - where can I find this information?

Thanks

Don

[Matthew Weddell]

Hi Don,

The RAD (Route Availability Document) is available from the CFMU (Central Flow Management Unit) Public website below:

http://www.cfmu.euro.../RAD/index.html

The latest RAD's are available by the links on the left side of the page (currently 1201), specifically the "EG United Kingdom" annex. In it are the listed restrictions for flights within UK airspace, each with their own ID number.

Specific to your post above, the RAD details restrictions for UN601 BPK - LESTA as:

Quote

Compulsory for traffic:
Via GILTI / RAPIX / SOVAT / SUMUM / XAMAN
Above FL245
When UL613 MOGLI-MAMUL is closed
1. With Dest. EGNT / NV / PD
2. Overflying EGPXFIR
Via TLA / GOW
3. Dest. EGP* / EGQ*

With the operational goal:

Quote

Traffic Orientation
To force listed traffic to route via LESTA when
UL613 is closed

The annex also details restrictions not only for airways, but departures and arrivals. For example:

Quote

EG2317
KENET

Not available for traffic
Dep. EGKK
Except Dest. EG**, EI**

However, the operational goal goes on to explain that departures from Gatwick routing to KENET with destination NAT are permitted, so long as it is co-ordinated with the UK Flow Management Position and CFMU themselves.

As far as VATSIM goes, yes the KENET departure is for UK an EIRE only, but if London were online, I guess there's no harm in co-ordinating a NAT departure via KENET.

Sorry it's abit long-winded, but hope it helps.

Regards

Edited by Matthew Weddell, 30 January 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Jamie Fox]

Those 'RAD' references are to the Route Availability Document, which contain the restrictions on filing certain routes. There's a separate one for each European state.

The references you quoted are as follows, the only one that's relevant to NAT traffic is 2293, and only between FL245 and FL285.
EG*2289
UL613 MOGLI-MAMUL
Compulsory for traffic
Except via RAPIX/REFSO DCT BETAX
1. Via GARMI/GILTI/ KOTEM/ RAPIX/REFSO/
SOVAT/SUMUM/XAMAN
a) With Dest. EGNT/NV
Above FL245
(except via DCT KATHY DCT LESTA)
b) With Dest. EGPD
Above FL285
(except via DCT KATHY DCT ELVOS/LESTA)
c) With Dest. EGPD
Between FL245-285
When NATEB-P18-ADN is available
2. Via GILTI/RAPIX/REFSO/SOVAT/SUMUM/XAMAN
Above FL285
a) Overfly EGPXFIR
Via TLA/GOW
b) Dest. EGP*/EGQ*

EG*2292
UN601 BPK-LESTA
Compulsory for traffic
Via GILTI/RAPIX/SOVAT/SUMUM/XAMAN
Above FL245
When UL613 MOGLI-MAMUL is closed
1. With Dest. EGNT/NV/PD
2. Overflying EGPXFIR
Via TLA/GOW
3. Dest. EGP*/EGQ*

EG*2293
UL613 MOGLI-MAMUL
Not available for traffic
Between FL245-FL285
1. With Dest EGQ*/EGP*
Except Dest. EGPD
When P18 is available
2. Overfly EGPXFIR
Via GOW/TLA

EG*2225
LESTA
Compulsory for traffic
Dest. EGCN/NH/NJ/NM/NO/NS
Via GILTI/RAPIX/SOVAT/SUMUM/XAMAN

[Don Fraser]

Great - thanks Matt and Jamie.

Don